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Ok, so I'm an idiot, but somehow I managed to cut my cone outlet chute on the fold line. I don't want to buy a new piece of metal. What can I do?
There is enough material that you don't need both sets of tabs, but since many cyclones are made with 7" and even 8" sized dust outlet chutes there is an easier fix. Compute the width of an 8" dust chute outlet rectangle, make that part and use it to mark the cone. Now go down 3/4" and make a cut and join as normal. The only difference is you will now have an 8" outlet. And yes, you will have to cut a new dust chute band, but there is plenty of extra material to make that part. Multiply Pi * 8" then add 3/4" for the tabs for the length of that piece.
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What tips can you give me on building my own cyclone?
Many are interested in some tips. Now with hundreds having built these units I incorporated the tips they have shared in the above building instructions. Here are a few reminders that are particularly important:
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Bought my first 24 gauge galvanized sheet metal at a metal surplus shop for $17 for a 4' x 10' piece. The cost was triple at my local hardware stores and the pieces offered were too small to make the cone in a single piece. For my second and third metal cyclones, that shop did not have any more surplus 24-gauge metal, so I ended up buying new sheets at $28 each. I was incredibly unhappy because the coating used on that metal would not solder at all. I tried everything then consulted with a metal expert. He said some coatings, particularly on galvanized metal that will be formed instead of soldered, contain metals and special coatings that provide extra protection but preclude soldering. I had to use swimming pool acid and a stiff wire brush to get down to bare steel to solder these sheets. Best to do homework before making a purchase!
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For my first cyclone when it was still in the design mode, I cut all the pieces out of poster board at exact size without tabs. I then built it using drafting tape (masking tape works, just a little more sticky and can ruin the poster board). I had to do this to ensure proper fit of the cone to the top cylinder, the inlet, the outlet, the air ramp, and the dust chute. I then used those cutouts to efficiently lay out how I wanted to cut the metal. I then carefully drew (scratched) onto the metal surface all my lines adding the tabs and bending areas. As I went I filled in those lines with a Sharpie marker to make them more visible. I had to use lacquer thinner to take those marks off after cutting.
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For my last couple of cyclones I made my pattern out of butcher paper including tabs then used those cutouts to make the cutting diagram for the piece of sheet metal. A friend gave me a full sized CAD drawing of my plans that can be used to layout the cutting as well, but I found making copies and handling the overhead of trying to share far more than I was willing to do. My efforts to support a private firm to provide the parts independently did not work out, so I am going forward at this time with my own effort for a complete unit using specialized metal working tools to make a low cost alternative that will take minimum work to assemble.
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Start by really cleaning the metal well. If you don't this will be a filthy job because the metal is covered with rolling oil. To remove that rolling oil, I found using either lacquer thinner or acetone thinner worked, but do it in a well ventilated area.
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Choose a good way to cut your metal. Inexpensive aviation snips work well as they use a compound joint that gives more leverage. Get either a left or right set. They pretty much are self-correcting forcing you to cut from one side or the other. They just don't work well at all the wrong way. I got a set of three pair from Harbor Freight for under $10 on sale. You do need to be a little careful as the ones I got have serrated blades that leave marks on your cut. As a result, my son and I use a big pair of snips that my father gave me from his early days in construction in the forties.
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Don't cut the tab slots on the cone or upper cylinder until after the metal is formed, or they will cause weak points that will make the metal bend in facets instead of nice curves.
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Before cutting out the cone, cut out and stand the unsoldered cyclone top cylinder bending it to fit onto your cone drawing. Make sure you use the line where you will bend the tabs, not the tab line! I know, learned this one the hard way! This will double-check the arc length of the top of the cone for a perfect fit. Do the same check to verify all other mating parts. The bottom dust chute must mate to the cone, etc. Use rare earth or the bigger arrow shaped welding magnets to help hold the arc just right as you make your checks.
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Now form the metal. I use a piece of 4" PVC pipe secured between a couple of bench mates. With gloves on I then gently press on either side of the metal gently using that pipe to establish a curve in the cylinders and cone. It takes lots of time and patience, but the result looks almost as though it was professionally rolled. I actually curl the metal a little extra so it does not spring out later and makes things easier to work. For the bent pieces I did pretty well by using a couple of angle irons and clamps with a lot of fussing. My pictures above show a good working wooden brake for bending the inlet. I made it easier on myself by purchasing an 18" brake from Harbor Freight for $19 on sale. You really don't need either if patient, but it does help.
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Instead of using lapped joints on the upper cylinder and the cone, one of our sheet metal working friends suggested that instead it is much easier to simply put a 3/8" bend on each side that can be clamped together on the outside for soldering. I tried this and it works well, but don't use that approach because I like the "cleaner" look of nice flat joints except for that center one at the top of the cone that needs to be big to add a little strength. I also bought a little sheet metal seam maker, but so far the seam maker is still theory. I see I need a lot of practice before this unit does me any good.
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Thoroughly clean the whole cyclone with lacquer thinner again prior to getting ready to finish forming before soldering. Lightly scuff the areas to be soldered with emery cloth or a steel wire brush. I'm still trying to figure out a better way and time to put on the flux, but so far it seems best to do so just before soldering. Carefully put on lots of plumbers' flux on just the areas to be soldered, and be careful to not wipe it off as you put the metal together before soldering. An artist friend gave me a tiny bottle of special tinning acid where one drop is enough to prepare a whole joint. After securing the pieces tightly together, just before soldering I use a little of this flux.
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In general, you need to clamp and hold all together carefully before starting to solder using either clamps, pop rivets, screws or sheet metal holders to ensure a tight fit. If this is your first and you don't have much soldering experience, I prefer using sheet metal screws. Clamps are really tough because they tend to be big heat sinks and make for lots of unsoldered and poorly soldered areas. You will be soldering with acid core solder and plumber's flux. Make sure your solder is a blend of real lead and tin (anything from 50% to 70% lead will work fine), and not the all tin used for drinking water plumbing. The 97% tin 3% copper tends to not stick well and is much harder to use. Both plumbing and welding shops carry the lead based solder. After, you need to remove any pop rivets or screws and fill the holes with solder. Solder flows so freely when melted that if you don't put a backer block of wood or something else, it will run right through those holes! As you go, you can use a pretty moist thick rag on the hot wet solder to take off excess and make perfect looking joints. Afterward, a fine stainless or brass wire brush will quickly take off the excess flux, etc.
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An important key to a good cyclone is forming round cylinders and round cone. I cheat a little on my forming. I made a 6", two 9", and three 18" wooden disks, all of them right on in terms of size. After putting on the flux, I slip two big wooden disks into the cyclone top and one more into the top of the cone to hold all dead on round and while soldering on the cone. Without those disks, it will become oval or worse.
To pull the metal tight to those disks I made a set of holes about 3" away on each side then used a couple of turnbuckles and safety wire. Just a few cranks on those round shafted turnbuckles will pull the metal top and bottom dead on. One of my friends uses threaded rod and big fender washers on those disks to hold them in place. Alternatively a little drilling with a strategic screw on top, bottom and elsewhere if needed holds all in place nicely. I've had good luck using band and strap clamps to help hold all together as I work.
Next, I bought from Harbor Freight 3 deep-throated welding clamps for $9 a set that work like ViseGrips. The jaws open into a big deep square. By clamping a couple of these jaws fairly close together I can either put in pop rivets or just solder. I at first used the aluminum pop rivets that are easily drilled out later then filled the holes in with solder. A couple of friends have written and said they liked using sheet metal screws. Now I just kind of leap-frog my clamps right up the side soldering as I go. The clamps are great heat sinks so the prior solder does not melt. It takes a little fooling to get the placement figured out, but you can do it! Likewise, make a similar round plug for the cone bottom dust chute and for the transition that connects between the inlet and shop ducting.
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Thoroughly clean the whole cyclone with lacquer thinner again prior to painting. Probably best to not rough up the galvanized sheet metal, but instead start with metal primer designed for galvanized followed by whatever paint you want. Dizzy used a color similar to Jet tools that some posted as being Krylon Ivory.
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I recommend doing careful homework before installing an oversized fan impeller. If you do, never run a blower that has an oversized impeller with unrestricted airflow as that can quickly burn up a motor! Also, make sure you use a reliable amp meter at least during the building and testing stages to ensure you are not drawing too many amps and overstressing your motor.
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I also recommend that if you can afford it, there is considerable benefit to putting an AC amp meter on your cyclone. It will tell you how well your cyclone is working and when to empty filters. A Magnehelic® gauge will do the same thing for you and give you bragging rights in terms of a pretty good idea of CFM airflow. The correct sized gauge should be the Dwyer 2010 gauge with a 10 inches of water pressure range and the built in CFM scale. Most of the gauges readily available on EBAY are for much larger or smaller ranges and lack the second CFM scale. If you are lucky enough to find one on EBAY, a 10" scaled Dwyer gauge will cost about $30 plus you still need tubing and a pitot tube. The Dwyer 166-6 or 167-6 pitot tubes that we need to measure hobbyist sized dust collection are near impossible to find used and cost about $54 including shipping and handling from Dwyer.
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I’ve spent weeks reading your huge “brain dump” of information here. As a fellow engineer I find it incredible that someone of your obvious skills would take so much time to share all, particularly in enough detail that even the very inexperienced can not only build your design, but learn the why behind almost every step. On one hand I hate this because as an equally obsessive engineer I cannot move forward without reading it all and you give way more than I really want or need. It is equally obvious to me that you must get a ton of email as my following of your pages over the years show that you continue to enhance and refine them regularly. What in heaven’s name inspired you to do this much work and keeps you attending to this monster effort?
Without mincing any words I installed the top magazine recommended and most expensive small shop cyclone then landed in the hospital in 1999 with dust triggered pneumonia. Make no mistake that pathetically designed dust collection system advertised to protect our health put me into the hospital and in spite of my best efforts continues to leave woodworkers all over with clean looking shops that build dangerously high airborne dust levels. My damaged lungs required me to either fix my fine dust collection or quit woodworking. I spent a lot of money on that cyclone and its filters, so did my best to figure out how to make it work well. I shared out my recommended changes on my Cyclone Modifications web pages and since then almost every small shop vendor has adopted a majority of my recommendations.
Unfortunately, all my efforts did was slightly improve separation efficiency and keep that cyclone and its terribly undersized filter from plugging so quickly, so I had to start over. I needed double the airflow of that cyclone that all other small shop vendors copy. No amount of changes to the cyclone got the airflow up enough to provide good fine dust collection. I also had no more room in my circuit breaker panel, so going to a much bigger blower did not make sense. The Fan Laws show that to double the airflow I had to square the horsepower, so for my larger shop would need at least a 10 hp motor to power that dismal cyclone design. I could squeeze another 240V circuit, but not the amperage to start and run a motor that big. This left me with two choices, get a more efficient blower or get a more efficient cyclone. I chose to do both. Lots of research and considerable testing went into making my resulting cyclone and blower designs far different than that 2D2D or typical 1D3D agricultural cyclone. I took my resulting airfoil blower and cyclone designs to firm of patent attorneys. Their patent search found both combine and innovate amply that I could easily patent them. I chose to instead share my designs here on these web pages so other woodworkers could avoid health problems similar to mine. Here are some of the other considerations that went into my design:
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Cyclone Blower: My testing found the fierce competition between vendors created a world of badly underpowered hobbyist cyclones. Almost every hobbyist cyclone used the same design, all copies to some degree of the early Delta commercial outdoor cyclones which copies that 1963 New York State Department of Public Works design. To use one of these very high resistance designs in my large shop I need a 5 hp motor and much larger impeller. Otherwise it would not move enough air to collect the finest, unhealthiest dust as it is made.
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Cyclone Design: Guess what else? My expensive hobbyist cyclone was designed to sit outside and beat the ever loving out of cotton to separate off that fiber from sand and dirt. This design may work well outside, but when downscaled and brought indoors creates problems. It separates off all the same chips that we would get with a broom and blows all the fine dust right through into my filters. Although the vendor could still accurately claim it was 95% efficient in separating off the wood dust by weight, they neglected to mention that this remaining 5% makes up close to 100% of the unhealthiest airborne dust and their design sends almost 100% of this airborne dust right into the filters. As a result, our fine filters quickly plug, meaning every couple of hours of use, killing the airflow needed for good fine dust collection. Cleaning these filters frequently gives us a dust bath exposing us to the fine dust we should avoid. Cleaning these expensive filters also rapidly wears them out.
I then went looking hard at every other cyclone and even trashcan separator design. None did a bit better, and most far worse with huge losses due to very high internal turbulence that causes high amounts of resistance. By this I mean it takes a full 1 hp extra to power a cyclone or trashcan separator due to this internal turbulence to get the same airflow. I read about some success using a James Halbert’s “neutral vane” that is an extended inlet so the incoming air does not crash into that already spinning inside the cyclone. Adding one of these saved almost 30% of the resistance, but my cyclone still did not separate off the fine dust and moved far too little air for my shop. I went back to the research and found we really needed to start over to clean up the airflow within the cyclone.
Recognizing that typical hobbyist cyclone designs were not a good solution I started over going back to the swirl tube theory and then redesigned a new cyclone that is optimized to minimize internal turbulence to permit using the smallest possible blower while maximizing fine dust separation. Although I started with the 1D3D cyclone from the Cotton Site research because of its airflow efficiency, I then redesigned the inlet, added an appropriate helical baffle (air ramp), and redid the internals. I designed a new rectangular inlet sized to minimize resistance while gently laying a smooth flow of air flat onto the cyclone outer wall and not let it touch any already moving air. I added an elongated inlet to further stabilize the air. I changed the internal geometry of the cyclone so the air did not have to compress at all within the cyclone. I also came up with an optimum angle for this inlet that gets rid of most of the fine dust. In short, all the internals on my cyclone are different from a standard 1D3D cyclone. I also had to address the cone length because the unit would be too tall for my 8’ shop ceiling. Coming up with the 1.64 cone multiplier took a lot of research, modeling, prototyping, and testing. Other vendors simply keep opening the size of their cone outlet (dust chute) until they quit getting plugging. That cost them almost all their fine dust separation, but they like the idea that customers will constantly have airflow problems and need to buy new filters four times as often. My resulting cyclone gets the same 95% of the heavy dust as other hobbyist cyclones. It also gets 95% of the fine dust. Many tell me they rarely get more than part of a cup of fine dust after months of use.
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After years of reading on the woodworking forums that it will take me at least 80 hours and cost me over $1200 to build your cyclone design, many are afraid to build your cyclone. With what appears to be hundreds already having built your cyclone, something does not make sense. If it is really so expensive and hard to make your cyclone design, why have so many done so?
Your cost and time estimates are almost double what it really takes. Sadly, you are getting sucked in by bad information being given out by a few who would like you to do anything except make a cyclone from my plans. It is no secret that my design and these pages have seriously embarrassed almost all of the major suppliers of small shop dust collectors and cyclones. Sadly, rather than fix their dismally performing equipment a few of these vendors actually pay shills to work the various woodworking Internet forums to pass on this kind of bad information. My cyclone was engineered not to make a profit, but instead to protect my family and me. In more than fifty years of woodworking and evolving my dust collection I made a lot of mistakes and learned considerable eventually ending up sucking an oxygen hose. While laid up in bed bored, I chose to put my three engineering degrees and practical experience to work building a better cyclone. When back on my feet I turned those plans into a working cyclone. My doctor talked me into sharing what I learned and my plans. I shared out my cyclone and blower designs for free for anyone who wanted to build a system instead of getting a patent for my efforts and turning them into a commercial venture. Almost every brand of hobbyist cyclone now "borrows" portions of my plans, unfortunately all make so many compromises there are still no other cyclones available that do a good job on the fine dust separation we need to protect our fine filters.
Regardless, after sharing quite a few chose to build cyclones from my plans. Word spread quickly through the various Internet woodworking forums that my cyclone worked very well. Overwhelmed with questions and asking for help with parts suppliers, I designed some alternatives and talked a number of vendors into helping hobbyists out with bulk purchases to keep the costs for our motors, impellers, filters, and flex hose low. This made these cyclones even easier to build. I went one step further helping my son and daughter make a little extra spending money by having a local laser cutting firm cut kits and then do the forming to make them easier to assemble. This reduced the normal build time from 25 to 30 hours starting from scratch by about half. I am disabled and could not keep up with that business, so I allowed another to take it over. It did not work out and I eventually moved on. His friends took things badly and ever since have gone out of their way to say how difficult it is to build one of my cyclones even with a kit. With both of my children away at school and me unable to do this kind of work I just let things slide thinking eventually the building would resume. I am happy to report it is picking up and that almost all continue to be very pleased with the very good performance of these units. As of December 2009 the feedback says without doing any scrounging or using lesser quality parts it costs about $850 to build a cyclone from my plans including blower. Many find with some scrounging on their motors, blowers, and ducting they can cut costs by half or more. Those who now use my cyclone design swear by it, often having clean shop air for the first time in a lifetime of woodworking. Ed Morgano so liked my cyclone design he built for his son, he built one out of clear plastic and created Clear Vue Cyclones turning that into the number two producer of small shop cyclones before Ed retired. That firm was sold and is now back in production turning out cyclones that continue to please every customer.
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I know a few people that I much respect who strongly recommend the cyclones they built from your plans. I want to have the peace of mind of having really good fine dust collection in my home basement shop. I also have a job that owns me, so the last thing I have time for is building my own cyclone. Do you recommend anything other than building a cyclone from scratch from your plans?
When Clear Vue Cyclones was shut down between owners, I talked my son into again selling precut metal cyclone kits and CNC cut blower kits. These kits are not preassembles as the Clear Vue units are, but they do go together quickly and pretty well. You should consider one of these.
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What is meant by a 2D2D and 1D3D cyclone design?
Cyclones are often named based upon the ratios of their parts. A 1D3D cyclone, also referred to as a 3D, is a cyclone that has an upper outer cylinder with a diameter of D and a cone that is three times longer or D*3 long. Each different cyclone design has specific strengths depending upon the ratios between their parts. The 2D2D was designed to separate a fixed larger particle such as grain from lighter husks. It works, has a low overall resistance, but does not at all separate fine dust particles because it was built to send them right out the top! New York State Department of Public works shared this 2D2D cyclone design in 1963 and since then with instructions to vent it directly outside without using filters. Since then almost every major woodworking cyclone for both small and large facilities uses this same basic design. Sadly, this design remains totally inappropriate to use with fine filters as so many small shop vendors now do.
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I understand a tighter diameter cyclone is more efficient for separation, but the smaller the cyclone the bigger blower impeller and motor needed to overcome the extra static pressure caused by turning air in a tighter spiral. Could you just make a really big cyclone and cut down that resistance and actually gain some filtering by having the airflow so slow that the particles just drop out because the airspeed is so low it will not keep the fine dust airborne?
You correctly understand that the smaller the diameter the better the separation and higher overhead in terms of needing a bigger more powerful blower. Your idea of making a huge cyclone works great for heavier chips but unfortunately just does not work for the fine dust separation.
What you are really talking about is building what is called a drop box. A drop box increases the area of a duct enough that the airspeed falls off so far the particles can no longer stay entrained (kept airborne), so they just fall.
To build a drop box that works, you need to know the CFM produced by your system because CFM and airspeed are related through the air equation where FPM=CFM/Area. If the airspeed drops below 2800 FPM than heavier sawdust and chips fall out of the air stream. Many use trashcan separator lids (a simple form of a drop box) which work great on the larger chips and sawdust until we let the air volume go over about 500 CFM. Then the airspeed inside the can stays so high that most of the sawdust passes right through. My cyclone design powered by a 15” impeller draws a maximum of about 3.5 hp and pushes about 1200 CFM minimum through my cyclone assuming a 6" inlet and clean new filters or venting outside. Since FPM = CFM / Area in square feet that gives us 1200 / (3*3*pi / 144) = 1200 / 0.19635 = 6111 FPM. We also know that air speeds over 50 FPM will keep the fine dust entrained which means keeping the dust airborne. From that same formula FPM = CFM / area with our 1200 CFM and a desired FPM of <50 we get area = 1200 / 50 = 24 square feet. A tube with a 24 square foot area has a radius of (24 / Pi)^0.5 = 2.76 feet or about 32" radius which comes out to a 64" diameter exit tube! Moreover, this still only reduces to 50 FPM and we need less. I've computed this a few different ways in the past and every time come up with needing a drop box that is bigger than 5' in diameter and at least three times that in height. A traditional cyclone design overcomes this size problem by using centripetal force to keep the particles pressed to the inside of the cyclone where gravity will make them drop into the collection bin. My design goes one step further and uses laminar flow to with centripetal force to separate off the fine dust then uses a directed air stream to wash and keep the finest dust into the collection bin.
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Although you recommend using a 1D3D cyclone design, your plans and kits all use a cone that is 1.64*D long. Why?
I only recommend using a 1D3D design if you use a traditional New York State woodworking cyclone that brings the air in horizontally and depends upon gravity to drop the heavier material. Researchers found cyclones have a reversal point where the air traveling down the inside of the cyclone reverses direction and heads up to exit. If the reversal point is too high it holds the chips and shavings from falling into the collection bin creating the plugs that are common to most small shop cyclones when they suck up lots of shavings. Likewise, if that reversal point is too low then the cyclone sucks the fine dust right out of the bin just like a tornado. Every small shop vendor cyclone my professor friends and I tested failed to have the reversal point properly established. I believe this is because these small shop vendors simply copied commercial cyclone designs without a clue that they also needed to do some very careful airflow balancing to get the reversal points properly adjusted. I did that work and came up with the revised cone shape now used by every major small shop vendor but one. Magazine testing showed that one cyclone that failed to follow my recommendation makes cyclones that separate far worse than $25 trashcan separator lids.
If you use my cyclone design with angled inlet and air ramp then the 1.64 ratio works far better. I went with a 1.64D cone length after going through the swirl tube physics and math needed to optimize each of these factors with the shortest natural reversal point to permit the shortest cyclone so woodworkers could fit it under their ceiling. My testing and independent medical school testing shows that my resulting cyclone has a third less resistance and provides over five times better fine dust separation which makes for much less filter cleaning and greatly extended filter life.
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I read on a web page that you simply copied an existing agricultural cotton cyclone and there really is no such thing as a Pentz design. Is this true, and if not, why is your design unique?
This nonsense first appeared on the web pages and forum posts from someone who years after I shared my cyclone and blower designs a fellow agreed to pay me a little for the right to sell a kit cyclone and blower based upon my designs, stole them without paying a thing, ran up bills in my name, then tried to rationalize his theft on his web pages with a bunch of nonsense. My cyclone design is unique and my own based upon a lot of my research and testing. He contributed nothing but messing up the inlet against my advice.
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I bought one of your early cyclone kits and it does not have an air ramp. Do I need one, and would it work better with one or not?
Air Ramp: Actually you bought one of the kits from a fellow that I later fired because he so messed up my design with the kits he sold. Instead of using my cyclone design used by hundreds all over the world he and his metal cutter made a bunch of quick changes without consulting me. They modified the inlet from my recommended 4.5” x 9” size to 4” x 10” so customers would not have to make their own transitions. They could simply buy an HVAC 6” to 4” x 10” heater vent. Rather than go through the entire design changing all to fit with that new sized inlet, he only changed that one part which also caused the air ramp to no longer fit, so they simply chose not to include that ramp. The resulting mess increased the overall system resistance by 100%, cut airflow by over a third, and killed the fine dust separation. I ended up recommending to the roughly two hundred people who got these cyclones that they add in the air ramp from the plans shown above on this page. That immediately repaired these problems. Using the air ramp saves roughly a half horsepower and will roughly double your filter life by greatly increasing fine dust separation.
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What are the pro's and cons of the 2D2D Vs the 1D3D and 1.64D setups?
Both the 2D2D and 1D3D cyclones were designed to separate agricultural products. The 2D2D primarily separates off grain from husks by blowing the husks out the top. It does the same with most sawdust and shavings, so is not a very good woodworking cyclone because all airborne dust and shavings land in the filters. Likewise, the 1D3D was designed to separate cotton fiber from dirt and sand. The finest, unhealthiest dust is lighter than cotton fiber, so it passes right though this type of cyclone. The 1.64 times D cone multiplier is my innovation with my unique design. When used with a 18” diameter cyclone which is ideal for most small shop woodworking this cone ratio permits my cyclone to still fit under an 8’ roof.
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I have the 2 hp Delta motor and a Sheldon's Engineering #1225 airfoil on order. Have you come up with a design to mount the motor/blower assembly to shock mounts on the ceiling that also allows access to the blower for periodic cleaning?
Lucky you! Neither these motors nor that impeller remain available. And yes, to both questions. To mount the motor I bought some strap metal and formed a total of eight U shaped pieces. I mounted four, one in each corner of the motor board base with the curved side up (see picture below). In the center of each I put in a neoprene shock mount cylinder that had a bolt coming out each end. By taking another U, turning it upside down and twisting it 90 degrees I was able to "capture" that shock mount and mount the second U to my mounts that attach to my ceiling joists. I used T nuts in the blower housing that I bolted through the motor board base to hold on the blower shroud.
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You say you mounted the 1 1/2 hp Delta motor and impeller on end. Will this result in burning out the bearings someday?
The mounting vertical only presents a problem if you have a motor without permanently sealed bearings. In the case of the Delta 2 hp and the Leeson motors I now recommend these all come with large sealed bearings so vertical mounting poses no motor problems. The big problem from vertical mounting remains impellers slipping down motor shafts when held by set screws. See my blower page for more information on properly mounting the impeller to the motor shaft.
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You know that all of your joints have 3/8" overlap on each side? This makes for soldering areas that are a full 3/4" wide. Why would you not just have one side overlapped 3/8"? That seems to make more sense.
You are absolutely correct. I did design my plans with a 3/8" overlap on both sides of the upper cylinder, the outlet cylinder, and the cone. These sized tabs let us bend the 3/8" tabs vertical and use those tabs to clamp each of those pieces with simple c-clamps ready for soldering. After, they can cover the joint with shiny automotive car-door plastic trim. Likewise, these wide joints also provide good mechanical strength and enough room that propane soldered joints don’t end up leaking lot lead during solder all over.
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I have the Harbor Freight 5 hp compressor motor with the Jet DC-1900 14" impeller. I have two questions. First, how much clearance should I allow for the impeller inside the blower and how big to make the blower outlet? Second, how do I mount this to either the ceiling or the wall?
That's lots more than two questions!
The blower height should be tall enough to give your impeller 1/2" clearance below the impeller, the width of your impeller and at least 1/2" to 1" above the vanes. If you are making a normal pull through cyclone give yourself 1/4" clearance between the impeller and the jog in the outlet that gets closest to the impeller as opposed to only 1/8" clearance if you are using an airfoil impeller. If you are making a push through where material can directly hit your impeller, you need to increase that clearance to 10% of your impeller wheel width or 1", whichever is greater, to keep from getting jams. The blower outlet needs to be anything over the area of a 5" circle for a 2 hp or smaller blower and 6" circle for 3 to 5 hp blowers.
Here are two different approaches to hanging the motor and blower on the same diagram. I like the idea of hanging the motor and blower so they can stay in place and I can independently remove the cyclone. The motor and blower are too heavy for me to want to lift. The right side shows the configuration for a ceiling mount and the left side shows the configuration for a wall mount. In either case, with the Harbor Freight motor there is a roughly 3" lip around the motor shaft that needs to be inset into your MDF or plywood, preferably onto foam insulation to make a good seal.
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Can you tell me the size of the footprint and height of the new cyclone with the 5hp motor?
The cyclone footprint is 18" in diameter. The blower footprint is 26" square but sits up above the cyclone, so is mostly out of the way. The filter footprint is about 13" in diameter depending upon brand. The cyclone height depends upon which cone configuration you use. My motor is about 12" tall, the blower 8", and the cyclone about 54" tall (using a 1.64 cone multiplier). That totals 74" above the dust collection bin. You need at least 4" of flex hose below the cyclone, so with an 8' ceiling I am limited to a collection bin that is 18" tall.
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Okay, I built this thing and it is too tall for my trashcan that I planned to use. Why didn't you make this a shorter unit like the other vendor designs?
Almost all other cyclones follow one of two designs, and both were engineered to separate and blow away the fine dust outside while dropping the heavier sawdust and chips into a bin. These designs use short squat cones and trade size for separation efficiency. Their level of separation efficiency relies heavily upon the filters for protection. I chose to go a different direction wanting to use the smallest possible motor, with a goal of moving at least 800 CFM airflow with only a 1.5 hp motor. I was successful, but then discovered that to handle the overhead of my large shop and move enough air for good fine dust collection I needed at least a 3.5 hp motor and a bigger blower. I went with larger blower and motor. The results work well without having to build a bigger cyclone. My design moves more than the 1000 CFM airflow we need at our larger tools with a 2-hp motor driving an airfoil or a 3.5 hp motor driving a 14" impeller. When equipped with the 15 and 16 inch impellers now being used by many and a 5 hp motor, the result is incredible. So, to answer your question I traded some extra height for efficiency in both power and particle collection. I found using a standard metal 30-gallon drum lets me fit my blower, cyclone, and dust bin comfortably under an eight foot ceiling. If you have less room that 8’, you can use a side outlet instead of top outlet and put your blower elsewhere instead of on top.
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What would be the downside/upside of taking the motor and impeller off the top of the cyclone and inverting it and then taking a U of flex tubing from the top of the cyclone to the impeller to make a pull through unit with the blower mounted on the floor?
Using tight radius or right angle bends on such an arrangement kills some of your airflow. If you use 9” diameter duct and keep the radius 18" or more, in theory there will be minimum resistance from the bend. If ceiling height is a problem, seriously consider making either a side outlet cyclone or build a push through cyclone (sorry, but no airfoils in this mode) following the same ducting plan but feed into the cyclone inlet with the blower connecting to your ducting.
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My basement ceiling is too short to mount it to the top of the cyclone. Can I mount my motor to the side?
A few have done just as you suggested. By mounting the Leeson motor pointing up and reversing the direction of rotation it works well. The nicest implementation I've heard of used a variable pulley and slave pulley to permit adjusting the RPM. You can go up about 25% in speed without worrying about the impeller if you use either our 15" impeller or 14" Jet impeller.
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Is there any advantage to making a push-through cyclone instead of a pull through?
It makes no difference at all because the resistance is the same on either side of the blower. I don’t like push through cyclones because just like our dust collectors all must first go through the impeller. Hitting a heavy steel or aluminum impeller can damage the impeller and create an out of balance situation that quickly ruins our motor bearings. Hits with metal hardware can also create sparks that may cause nasty delayed action fires. The only real advantage to a push through cyclone is you can just use a plastic dust bag on the bottom of the cyclone without all the overhead of making sure all is perfectly sealed.
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I work in the sheet metal industry and wondered why you did not design this cyclone to be 16 or 18 gauge metal? Could I make one out of that heavy of metal? How about using stainless steel?
My son’s laser cut kits are all 22 gauge metal. When I hand cut a cyclone I use 24 gauge metal because I can cut it with tin snips and it does not collapse. 16 or 18 gauge would be better, but don't think average woodworkers have access to the tools needed to do the cutting, fold the inlet, roll the curves, or hold the cylinders and cone together. If you have those tools, then the heavier metal would last far longer. Likewise, so would the stainless, but again that takes special tools to weld and properly solder. I know because my own cyclone is 22 gauge stainless all spot welded then silver soldered together.
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I do woodworking as a hobby and have zero interest in either learning how or buying enough tools to work with sheet metal. I have a nice 5 horsepower Baldor motor and am ordering up that 14" Jet DC-1900 impeller to make a cyclone. I took your plans to a local HVAC shop and they said they would build me a cyclone for a modest fee. The only problem is they want to use 30 gauge metal instead of the 24 gauge you recommended. Will that work?
The 30 gauge will work, but the first time you close all the blast gates with that big motor turning that impeller your cyclone may well become about 1/2" thick. You need to either install reinforcing rings around the upper cylinder or use heavier metal, at least 24 gauge. Perhaps you buy a 4'x10' sheet of 24 gauge and they use their tools to build it?
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Now I'm really confused. I had just made up my mind to buy the airfoil impeller with that 2 hp Delta motor, and suddenly you are saying to buy a 14" Jet DC-1900 or even larger custom made impeller and use an expensive Leeson 5 hp motor. Why can’t I use that inexpensive Jet impeller with a cheap Harbor Freight motor?
I powered my first cyclone with a new Baldor motor driving a Cincinnati Blower. My airfoil powered cyclone used a new Delta 2 hp motor driving my custom designed airfoil impeller. The airfoil just does not work for larger shops that need more than 7” of pressure as it stalls and can ruin the motor bearings if the pressure climbs too high. This makes it unsuitable for use with filters or in large shops. Many asked me to come up with an equivalent solution without the problems of the airfoil. Many buy inexpensive lesser quality dust collectors that could spend about the same amount and end up with cyclones. I know there are less expensive impellers than the Jet or the custom larger impellers I get made by Clear Vue, but the Jet and Clear Vue impellers are top quality and far quieter, plus the cost difference for something a whole bunch less quality was under $10. That is why I specified the Jet impeller for the smaller shop cyclones and the Clear Vue larger impellers for average and larger shops. Likewise, the Harbor Freight Motor is not by any means the best quality, but their 5 hp compressor motor is inexpensive particularly on sale. I know many cannot afford to spend two or three times that for a good quality motor. So if you have the money and patience to keep up with the airfoil, buy that. Otherwise, buy a Jet or Clear Vue impeller with a bigger motor.
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How does the cyclone body mount and dismount from the blower/motor assembly?
I've used two approaches to mount the cyclone to the blower shroud. For one, I screwed the top MDF donut that holds the cyclone to the bottom of the blower using T nuts. I had predrilled holes all around the perimeter and just screwed the cyclone to that donut and was done. For the second I bought four footlocker wire cam latches. I screwed the female parts to the donut and the male parts to the cyclone. Lifting the cyclone up and onto that cylinder then latching those four down pulled the cyclone up nicely, but it did take a second ring with insulation to make a good seal. After building dozens of these with feedback from hundreds most now prefer to screw the cyclone blower to the cyclone top and simply undo the motor plate connections to drop the blower housing and cyclone together.
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I want an airfoil impeller, but am terrible at doing maintenance. Is there something that you could coat that impeller with that would reduce or eliminate my having to clean it?
Unlike self cleaning material handling impellers airfoil impellers need regular cleaning to ensure we don’t build up crud that causes an out of balance condition that quickly ruins motor bearings. Even if you coat an airfoil it still can build up strings and long shavings so must be regularly inspected and cleaned. Regardless, you might be able to get a gunsmith to coat the impeller with Teflon or find a can and spray it yourself. That spray used to be readily available, but I have not seen any in a while because baking it in our ovens gives off toxic fumes. If you really are not willing to do the upkeep, then buy the larger motor and material movement impeller.
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Is there a concern with the start-up torque of the motor enlarging the mounting holes in the MDF or plywood blower unit top?
I suspect what you are asking is for some help on the nasty false rumor again created by some of the vendor paid shills that the MDF parts in the Clear Vue Cyclone are poor quality and inappropriate to use with a cyclone design. Clear Vue Cyclones implemented my blower design with a CNC routed MDF motor plate. That motor plate is now in use by thousands all over the world with no problems at all. I do recommend that you spray paint these for added moisture protection but as long as you bolt the motor on tight that MDF motor plate works fine and poses no problems. That motor plate is an integral part of my design to save your back because the motor and blower impeller stay mounted while you separately take down the cyclone and blower housing. In my son’s blower kits he includes a 1/8” thick laser cut steel plate for the motor mount which is what I use on my personal cyclone. Many also cut their motor plates from heavy Baltic birch plywood. These all work well.
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Is your design like the Wood Magazine cyclone plans where they cut the air inlet flush with the upper cylinder?
No, the inlet goes inside my cyclone design goes right to the center edge where the joint is for the outer cylinder. This is a much more efficient way to build the inlet instead of having to add a less efficient "neutral vane" later. The inlet sets the angle for the air ramp and how to cut the outer cylinder.
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Where does the air ramp go?
The air ramp starts on the top of the cyclone inlet and spirals down to the bottom of the inlet making one revolution around the cyclone outlet cylinder. Unlike the below picture that shows how I used to attach the air ramp to the outlet cylinder, now I find that soldering the air ramp to only the cyclone outside cylinder instead of the outlet cylinder works best. Because the air is moving very slowly next to the outlet, this is not that important, but a good seal on the outside is!!
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Does the air ramp go right to the edge of the cyclone?
Yes, the air ramp helix goes right to the edge of the cyclone and is soldered there to the outside cylinder. It only fits close to the center cyclone outlet cylinder and that joint should not be soldered or sealed so we can take our cyclone apart to clear plugs or trapped debris.
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What angle does the air inlet enter the upper cylinder?
The angle is the same as the angle that the air ramp spirals down. To understand it takes a little work. The inlet stops at the center seams of both cylinders inside the cyclone. The air ramp makes one rotation around the inside. If you were to flatten out the outer cylinder after drawing in the line that the air ramp makes when touching the outer cylinder is a diagonal of a right triangle. That triangle has a height that is the same as the inlet and a width that is the same as the distance round the outer cylinder. In fact, that same diagonal length is the circumference of the air ramp outer diameter. The same is true for the outlet cylinder as the diagonal on that cylinder sets the length of the inner radius for the air ramp. To make all this work, the angle is the same as you would get by just extending the diagonals. To draw the angle you can start just below the MDF and go to the edge.
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How do you position the inlet and mark the outer cylinder for cutting?
Although you can calculate the angles to cut the outer cylinder for the inlet, I found it better to build the inlet and solder it up. Then build the outer cylinder, but don't solder, just hold together with either clamps or pop rivets. Put a mark on the outer cylinder where the bottom of the MDF will sit. Now with a straight edge put the inlet up against the outer cylinder curve and move it down until it comes out just below where the MDF will hit. I take a flat sharp tipped piece of metal and scribe the upper and lower cut lines. If you have a very clean inlet, you can cut to size and solder will fill in any gaps. If you made a rough inlet, then it is a good idea to make your cuts 3/8" inside of that line, then make tabs that you will bend outward to solder the cyclone to the inlet.
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Does this angle matter?
The closer you stay to the same angle of the air ramp, the less resistance and the better your cyclone will perform both in terms of needing less horsepower, and in terms of better separation.
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Does the air inlet get cut away where you have the hidden lines on your spread sheet?
No, the outer cylinder ends up being cut, following the procedure I just described.
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I'm confused about the inlet. From the drawing it looks like it has a strange cut. Hopefully it will be explained in the building instructions. Pictures would be good!
The inlet has long been a source of confusion. My original drawing and dimensions did not show this as a parallelogram, but they are now corrected. The inlet is a simple box setup as a parallelogram. By slanting the ends of this box, it makes a nice easy seam with both the outer and inner cylinders.
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I'm confused about the connection between the inlet and my 6" ducting. Help! Pictures would be good!
The complication comes from connecting the end of the inlet, a rectangular box, to a round piece of ducting. I finally got so many questions on how to make this transition that if you now look above at inlet transition and it will show you in detail how to develop your own transition in sheet metal. It takes some work, but is not all that difficult.
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I noticed that you do not have to put the motor and blower on top of the cyclone. That would be ideal for me as I have a basement shop that does not have enough ceiling height to mount the motor above. What mounting configuration will give me the least tall cyclone?
If you study the cyclone plans carefully, you will se you can seal the air ramp and create a blank space where the aid is isolated. You can take the air out of the top of cyclone or through that blank space. Below is a picture plus dimensioned drawing for a cyclone top with the air going out the side.
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Which motor would you recommend with the Jet 14" impeller the Harbor Freight 5 hp or the Delta 2 hp on EBAY?
Neither. Buy the 5 hp face frame mount Leeson motor I recommend with a 15” impeller from Clear Vue. The fan tables and lots of testing show that we need at least a 14" diameter impeller to move the minimum airflow required to get good small shop fine dust collection. When turned at the typical 3450 RPM motor speed these 14” impeller draw just over 3.5 hp with my cyclone design and about 3 hp with the other less efficient cyclone designs. This draw will quickly burn up 2 and even 3 hp motors. The Delta 2 hp is way too small to push more than a 12" material handling impeller without burning up the motor. Since standard affordable induction motors come in 3 or 5 hp sizes, I recommend you buy a 5 hp motor. That leaves at least 1.5 hp available. Although the 14” moves ample air, I prefer to use this extra horsepower to drive a 15” impeller which leaves a little more cushion in terms of total airflow. Additionally, the Jet impellers use a tapered metric sized arbor that will not fit standard cylindrical motor shaft sizes. This means you need an adapter. Going rate in 2010 from one of my machinists who turns out lots of these adapters is $100 each. By the time we add the cost and trouble of adding the adapter, most find the Clear Vue impellers with their much better compression arbors provide a better overall solution. Although the Harbor Freight 5 hp compressor motors work, they also have a history of not working all that long plus have fairly poor quality bearings. I did lots of homework and settled on recommending the American made 5 hp Leeson motors. It makes no sense to me to recommend a poor quality motor for the most heavily used motors in our shops.
In any case after you get the blower, cyclone, ducting, and filters assembled, you need to measure the amperage draw on any of these motors. If it is too much, then you need to reduce the size of the inlet to your blower or to your cyclone a little. Always check your amperage after assembly to make sure you don't have too much airflow that could damage your motor.
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I decided not to mess with the airfoil, so bought the Jet impeller with the 5 hp Harbor Freight motor. How do I make my HF 5HP motor with a 5/8” shaft work with my impeller fan which is a 0.94" tapered hole? Did you have to deal with the same situation?
Yes, I had to deal with the same problem. I handed my impeller, motor, and money to my machinist. He refused to make me an adapter for that motor and told me to go buy a bigger motor with a larger diameter shaft. He said the 5/8” HF motor shaft and bearings are too small to support such a heavy impeller. I listened to him as he has been at this a long time and does excellent work. I came back with an inexpensive Harbor Freight 5 hp compressor motor with 7/8” diameter motor shaft. My machinist then pulled a 7/8" keyed arbor from a drawer, welded on a back plate, used the Jet arbor for marking, then drilled and tapped holes. He said we could have rolled a piece of sheet metal to fill the gap, but that was not the correct fix. He also gave me a little tube of Lock-Tite and said to be sure to use it on the bolts and set screws.
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Do I need to protect the inside of my cyclone?
The inside of the top cylinder where the inlet air first strikes is the only place that you really should provide any protection. The entering sawdust hits this one area hard enough to cause wear, generate heat, and release moisture. Many types of wood contain high silica content. This means we sandblast that spot. This blasting and high moisture causes rusts and wears through cyclones right at that impact point. Still, most cyclones will take years of steady use depending upon the gauge metal used. Probably the best thing to put there is a piece of thin rubber such as the Rubbermaid shelving liner I used or square of vinyl upholstery material. Many industrial cyclones end up using either a piece of stainless or of rubber sheet there as well. I was a little surprised to hear that the rubber sheet holds up far better and longer than the stainless. It's true because the rubber gives. This is why putting the vinyl bonnets on cars protects them pretty well from small rock chips.
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I’m about to build 2 of your cyclones, and have clock-wise spinning impellers. Does it matter which direction the air circulates around the cyclone? Should I reverse the input direction from those on your plans so that the uptake air spin is the same as the cyclone spin? Or is this completely irrelevant given the 16” length of the outlet tube?
The air exiting the cyclone reverses direction spinning upward at the reversal point. The direction of spin is set by the direction of the air as it enters the cyclone inlet. Your unit will be a bit more efficient, roughly 0.1 hp, if the blower is already turning in the same direction as the incoming air as it will not have to overcome that spin. Other than this little loss in efficiency, I was unable to measure any difference in overall air volume or airspeed. In short, your cyclone should work just fine no mater what way your blower needs to be oriented. I intentionally made my cyclone with an entry reversed from my plans so it would better fit in the limited shop space available and the result still works well.
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How can I quiet my cyclone down? It sounds like a jet engine trying to tug away my home?
If you bolt directly to your framing, most of the noise is fairly low frequency so like a subwoofer will go all over your shop and house if they are attached. I know as I have 12" of well-insulated plenum between my and my teen's room. Now all I hear is the bass. All you can do is to change over the mounting to use shock mounts so the low frequency stuff does not make your shop and or home walls into sounding boards. Grainger's carries them (search under vibration hanger), but pick a set that is sized near the overall weight as heavier mounts provide little vibration protection.
I like adding a muffler. PSI sells one for $49 that I have heard saves about 10 dB as well, but it only fits a 5" outlet that I think is too small. Quite a few have made their own mufflers out of perforated pipe wrapped with screen then with fiberglass followed by being slipped into a larger tube. I tried making one using PVC pipe because PVC helps dampen the noise, but found sliding the outer pipe onto the insulated inner was difficult. For my next I used 8" snap lock pipe on a 6" perforated center pipe covered in window screen then fiberglass insulation. With the 8" pipe it was bear to fasten that center seam but much easier than trying to slip that mess into a tight PVC tube. My Home Depot store had nice tapered 8" to 6" reducers that ended up making a pretty good-looking unit. After I went to all that work, Larry Adcock, creator of the WoodSucker, told me it would have been easier to just use a length of fiberglass insulated HVAC flex duct in place of the muffler as it apparently does a better job and costs far less. I tried that and he was right!
I've since bought a good digital dB meter. I measured 96 db with the blower just going directly into the filter through metal duct. Adding my homemade muffler to that same setup dropped it to 88 dB. It went down to 92 dB using PVC duct and no muffler. Using insulated HVAC duct it went down to 87 dB with no muffler. Using insulated HVAC duct and my own homemade muffler it went down to 82 dB. These test results will vary considerably depending upon how you made your blower, your choice of impeller, motor choice, any coatings or insulation you use, and depending if you use anti-vibration mounts.
Rather than attach my cyclone directly to my ducting metal to metal, I use a short length of flex pipe. That keeps the metal from carrying the sound. In spite of my advice, my personal solution involved a lot of work. I hung the whole setup using shock mounts. I used my home-made muffler. The spray helped about 5-10 dB and the muffler they say saved about 10 dB. Wrapping the outlet to the muffler with pipe wrap helped more getting rid of the sounding boards. Also going with MDF instead of my original plywood top on my cyclone seemed to help, but I like the extra strength of good Baltic birch plywood, so continue to use that for my blowers. I did try spraying the cyclone outside, but that did not seem to help much. Spraying the outside metal sides of the blower did seem to help, but I did that before getting my dB meter, so cannot say how much. I also tried putting the cyclone outside, but it was way too close to my wife's study/craft room and it quickly found itself back inside. Probably the biggest help was building a new cyclone that was far more carefully finished so the airflow was very clean.
In spite of my advice, my personal solution involved a lot of work. I hung the whole setup using shock mounts. I used my home-made muffler. The spray helped about 5-10 dB and the muffler they say saved about 10 dB. Wrapping the outlet to the muffler with pipe wrap helped more getting rid of the sounding boards. Also going with MDF instead of my original plywood top on my cyclone seemed to help, but I like the extra strength of good Baltic birch plywood, so continue to use that for my blowers. I did try spraying the cyclone outside, but that did not seem to help much. Spraying the outside metal sides of the blower did seem to help, but I did that before getting my dB meter, so cannot say how much. I also tried putting the cyclone outside, but it was way too close to my wife's study/craft room and it quickly found itself back inside. Probably the biggest help was building a new cyclone that was far more carefully finished so the airflow was very clean.
I have not tried an enclosure myself, but I know a few of the folks who have. They consistently said it did little to no good in terms of reducing the noise. Since those early comments, others have responded with solutions that apparently do work. They have built enclosures with enough room to access the cyclone using either two layers of sheetrock inside and a third outside or sheetrock outside and a 3M construction sound deadening board inside. They also recommended mounting the cyclone on a wall with isolation dampers to keep the wall from being used as a sounding board.
Adding the baffling and sound deadening materials to the outside of the cyclone around the blower and outlet would help considerably. My only caution would be to not use something that becomes a dust collector.
You can also use one of the rubberized spray on compounds such as Dip-It or a plastic based automotive undercoating (not oil or tar). If you use either, be careful, as the odors can be terrible.
Strangely, using PVC pipe instead of dust collector spiral pipe or thick HVAC pipe also seems to help considerably as you don't hear nearly as much sawdust rattling in the pipes.
Yitah R. Wu says: "With regards to cyclone noise, I work in automotive and one product which probably be good for reducing cyclone noise is what we call peel and stick mastic. It's usually in 8x10 sheets and is basically a 1/16" sheet of asphalt and recycled rubber with adhesive on it. It does a great job of both adding mass and dampening for sound deadening of the cyclone itself. Auto parts and auto stereo stores typically carry this material. Some brands are Evercoat Q-Pads and Dynamat."
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I see benefits in locating the cyclone in the shop and locating the blower in the attic directly above the cyclone. This would add a couple feet of straight pipe, but would help deal with ceiling height limitations and possibly reduce noise in the shop. Do you see any significant drawbacks with this?
If you put your blower in the attic, there are a few concerns.
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The fire codes in most areas require that you use metal ducting and a metal flange through your ceiling for the inlet, and a similar metal duct and flange for your outlet;
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You will still need to have your dust collector, collector barrel, filter, and filter bin in your shop to make access easy;
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Obviously you will need to bring power down through the ceiling or at least a good heavy duty switch. If you hard wire it up in the attic, you also have inspection problems, so need a plug up there and switch down lower;
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Going in the attic is not a good setup for an airfoil blower because you need to check and clean it regularly. Even with a nice pull down ladder to my attic loft area, I am way too remiss to check up there often enough; and,
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You do need to realize that in mid summer in many areas you can easily burn up a motor it can get so hot in your attic. You might have to do as I did and put in a thermally switched attic fan that goes to an attic vent if yours goes up into the 130+ degree range like mine.
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I take it you soldered your cyclones together?
Yes, for my metal ones I used my propane soldering iron to solder the first one using acid core solder and plumber's flux. I thought I would try my big Weller gun with a spade tip for the second as the propane heat was hard to control and warped the metal from being too hot. The Weller with the spade tip did not work worth a darn. I bought a bigger electric American Beauty 150 watt soldering iron from EBAY and it works lots better, but not as good as the propane torch with a soldering tip. I wish I had bought a 200 watt unit, as I seem to keep making these units. If I knew I was just making one, I would not even consider anything but an inexpensive propane or small butane torch. You can use that tool for lots of things, but what do you do with a five pound soldering iron after you make your cyclone, fix all the gutters, and solder all the joints in your HVAC system air tight?